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Post by dschroll on Jan 14, 2017 0:15:43 GMT -5
Wired interview with Reggie:
SO, NINTENDO’S SWITCH is pretty fantastic. Or, rather, it could be if it gets some killer games. But after watching the company’s livestream today and playing around with the new console, we had questions. Fortunately, Reggie Fils-Aime, Nintendo of America’s president and chief operating officer, was there to answer them.
Read on for our discussion about Switch’s online gaming service (for which Nintendo will charge a monthly fee), why Nintendo didn’t put enough NES Classic systems into the market, and what the future is for the Nintendo 3DS handheld now that Nintendo’s home system is also portable.
Nintendo’s online service for Switch will charge a monthly fee and one of the incentives is one free classic game “per month.” Does that mean you lose access to that game after a month?
Reggie Fils-Aime: Correct. It means that essentially you’ve got access to that game for a period of time, and then after the month there’s a new selection. You’ll have the opportunity to buy it, but [after] that month we’ve moved on to another game.
I think it would be helpful maybe to step back. Because I think it’s important there’s an understanding of the bigger vision. The bigger vision is that we are going to provide an overall online service, subscription-based, that not only will capture the multiplayer opportunity, but also the voice chat capability that we’re going to provide through a global app. We think that that’s just as important as access to Virtual Console content.
The reason for that is, it continues to reinforce our commitment to online, and do so in a way that will enable the consumer to enjoy their Nintendo Switch and to still be able to play those connected experiences—like Splatoon, like Kart, like fill in the blank—while they’re on the go. Instead of having some sort of bulky gamer headset, you’ll be able to do it right off your smartphone, put in your earbuds that you use for your standard mobile device. We think that’s a pretty sweet solution. That’s part of the overall opportunity that we see in a subscription service.
I hear from a lot of people like me who’ve spent a thousand dollars on classic games on Wii and Wii U…
Fils-Aime: That’s a lot of money.
It is a lot of money! Is there going to be a discount for us if we buy the games again on Switch?
Fils-Aime: What I would say first is, we recognize that some of our most passionate fans have spent quite a bit, whether it’s with Virtual Console on Wii or Wii U, and we recognize that consumers are rightly concerned about moving to Nintendo Switch without backward compatibility. My comment is: Stay tuned, we understand the concern, more information to come.
There’s 40-some odd days between now and launch. There are more details to come. And at that point we’ll be able to define all of those various details of that online experience.
What do you foresee in terms of the number of Nintendo Switch consoles that you’ll be able to release in 2017?
Fils-Aime: What we’ve said publicly is that there will be 2 million units that will be shipped worldwide for the launch, essentially through month one.
I know, because I read the boards and I read the comments, that there is concern about supply. From what I’ve read, the concern seems to stem from the lack of ability to buy NES Classic. So what I would say is this: Two million for essentially the first month is a huge number, especially when you look and see that this is not peak seasonality. This is essentially the first three weeks of March. Our focus is making sure that the consumer who wants to buy a Nintendo Switch can buy a Nintendo Switch. That’s how we build our supply chain, that’s how we think through the amount of product that’s available.
What happened with NES Classic is that was a situation where the global demand was well in excess of anything we had anticipated, and that’s what created shortages. The good news, at least for consumers in the Americas, is we’re going to continue to make the NES Classic available. With the ongoing level of supply, the ongoing demand is going to be met. We know the concern.
Did the surprising, to you, demand for NES Classic open your eyes to understanding the popularity of classic Nintendo products in this day and age?
Fils-Aime: We know the popularity of our classic games. That’s a known situation. The challenge for us is that with this particular system, we thought honestly that the key consumer would be between 30 and 40 years old, with kids, who had stepped away from gaming for some period of time. And certainly we sold a lot of systems to that consumer. But what we also see here in the Americas is that we’ve sold a lot to [fans] who just saw a compact, all-in-one opportunity to get the 30 greatest games from the NES generation. I think that incremental demand is what surprised us. Because again, how many times have you purchased the original Super Mario Bros.? We thought that the consumer that already had a Wii or a Wii U and had purchased those games once or twice already, we didn’t think that they’d buy the NES Classic. And they did.
What does the launch of Switch mean for 3DS?
Fils-Aime: 3DS has a long life in front of it. We’ve already announced games that will be launching in the first couple quarters of this year. There are a number of big games coming. And in our view, the Nintendo 3DS and the Nintendo Switch are going to live side-by-side. You’re going to be meeting different price points, you’re going to be meeting different types of consumers, you’re going to have the newest, freshest content available on Nintendo Switch, you’ve got a thousand-game library available on Nintendo 3DS, plus some key new ones coming. They’re going to coexist just fine. We’ve done this before, managing two different systems.
I think there’s a sense that Nintendo Switch is a portable device. It is portable. But at its heart, it’s a home console that you can take with you on the go.
Will we ever get Mother 3?
Fils-Aime: We hear all of the comments, Chris. We hear all of the comments.
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Post by dschroll on Jan 14, 2017 1:24:35 GMT -5
IGN made an error and advised that the Switch version of Zelda runs at 1080p. This has not been confirmed and all that we know is that the Switch version will run at an increased resolution over the Wii U one.
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Post by reaper on Jan 14, 2017 19:14:58 GMT -5
I was watching a video about the switch by engadget. They said the graphics on Zelda were slightly better than Wii U when docked and the problems were less noticeable on the small undocked screen. They also said that both Xbox and PS4 were better.
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Post by dschroll on Jan 14, 2017 21:44:22 GMT -5
Ok, I'm back from the Switch event. I'll be typing up my thoughts on everything shortly, but feel free to ask questions and I'll try and respond to those as well. Games I played:
Zelda Splatoon 2 Arms Sonic Mania Mario Kart 8 Deluxe Bomberman R Fast RMX
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Post by reaper on Jan 14, 2017 22:12:06 GMT -5
Is the motion control anything more than the Wii motion control? What was the most compelling thing about the hardware that made you excited about it? How did the mobile screen compare to iPad retina displays? Can I use Netflix on this device? Did the colored combo look as ugly in person as it does online ? Did you ask Nintendo any hard hitting questions?
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Post by dschroll on Jan 14, 2017 22:56:23 GMT -5
Is the motion control anything more than the Wii motion control? What was the most compelling thing about the hardware that made you excited about it? How did the mobile screen compare to iPad retina displays? Can I use Netflix on this device? Did the colored combo look as ugly in person as it does online ? Did you ask Nintendo any hard hitting questions? Is the motion control anything more than the Wii motion control?
The motion control is more precise on the Switch from what I could tell mostly because it looks like both joy cons have gyroscopes and accelerometers in them( on the Wii, the nunchuck didn't have a gyro as well as early Wiimotes. Later N added gyros in Wiimotes calling it Wii Motion Plus). However, the only motion controlled game I played was Arms so I cannot give a thorough review of that. What was the most compelling thing about the hardware that made you excited about it?The ease of which you can dock and undock the system and not be tethered like you currently are with the Wii U. Personally, I love my Wii U and think it's a fantastic system. It had mixed messaging and never got strong 3rd party support, but it had/has some fantastic games on it, so I have no regrets about getting it. However, it does get annoying that the gamepad has such a short tether to the console. So, the Switch feels like it's the system that the Wii U should have been. Being able to pick that thing up and take it anywhere in your house or even on a trip is definitely appealing. How did the mobile screen compare to iPad retina displays? Not as good as a retina display, but it does look really good. Zelda, Splatoon 2, and Mario Kart all looked gorgeous on the tablet and I never once felt that the resolution was lacking. Screen size does feel small though if you're used to iPad sizes, but any bigger and this would be far less portable. Can I use Netflix on this device?I asked this while there. The Nintendo reps could not answer as various apps have not been announced yet for the Switch. I think it's a safe bet it will though. It would be insane for Nintendo not to support such features on this device when they're free and give the Switch a lot more versatility. Did the colored combo look as ugly in person as it does online ?Yes. However, these seemed to be the ones that were at most stations. It seemed like a lot of games that were 2 player often had the red / blue joy cons just to make it easy to distinguish between player 1 and player 2. Did you ask Nintendo any hard hitting questions?None of Nintendo management was there as far as I could tell. Most of the people working the event were either hired through an agency or worked at the Nintendo store in NYC. That being said, every time you finished playing a game the reps would ask you for feedback. In almost every case, I let the reps know that the Switch accessory pricing was way too high and that needed to be rectified.
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Post by dschroll on Jan 15, 2017 0:16:41 GMT -5
Ok, so I attended the Nintendo event in NYC with jincman today. For a private event, there were quite a lot of people that were invited. Getting there, the line was literally wrapped around a corner as everyone was waiting to get in. I thought for sure it would be crazy crowded on the inside, but actually there was quite a bit of space to spread out and you weren't bumping into people. So, it worked out well.
Getting Inside: We get inside and go upstairs and essentially they have various stations all over the place, each showcasing different games. What was clever was Nintendo really wanted you to try the Switch in its various forms. So, some stations had the Switch just docked and had pro controllers and a couch and you just played like you would at home. Another station was laid out like the inside of plane with the seats and the fold down tables. There they had a Switch on its kick stand (tabletop mode) and handed you joy cons to play some Mario Kart. Another station had a diner set up and had Switches spread out on the table with the joy cons attached to the screen so you could play it in portable mode. I thought it was very clever to help you better see how this thing can be played in a variety of ways at a variety of settings.
The wait to play games wasn't bad at all. Zelda had the longest wait (we waited about 30 mins), but everything else was maybe a 5-10 min wait tops. Some games you could walk right up to as they had no one playing them like Disgaea 5
When we got inside, we walked around a bit to see where which games were at and also wanted to get an up close look at the hardware. They had various Switch units on display throughout the event. The first game we played was Mario Kart 8 Deluxe on the airline set. They had the Switch in table top mode sitting on a fold down table, and split off the joy cons and handed one to Jay and one to me. We sat in our airline seats, Jay in the window seat and me in the aisle. They even had a cut out of a fuselage and digital clouds going by on the plane windows. It was pretty neat.
Mario Kart 8 Deluxe: Mario Kart looked great and even ran at 60fps in 2 player mode. We played both grand prix and battle mode. Battle mode is a welcome addition as this is the battle mode we know and love in MK. I don't know why it was missing from MK 8, but glad it's back with this iteration. We weren't able to pick any tracks in MK8, so I cannot say if there are new tracks or not. However, you can now be the ink boy and girl from Splatoon which is pretty cool. They also had a splatoon themed kart. It plays every bit as great as MK 8 did on the Wii U.
Joy cons But what you're probably more interested in reading about is how the joy cons felt playing the game. Honestly, just ok. Those joy cons are SMALL. I don't have big hands either but they felt small in my hands. These are probably perfect sizes for kids, but I suspect adults will find holding them to feel a bit cramped. Just like a wiimote, you hold the joy con sideways and you have an analog stick and 4 face buttons. You also have 2 shoulder buttons that are across the top of the joy con. So, these controllers are more than capable of playing a game like Mario Kart 8. But they are small and not all that comfortable. They'll suffice if you're on the go and want to play something with a friend or child, but I don't expect this to be the preferred play method for any of us on this board. The other item I wanted to comment on here was the rumble HD feature Nintendo touted. There was rumble in MK8 but it wasn't all that pronounced. I was expecting more from it and ultimately I felt it felt no stronger than something you can get from your mobile phone. Also, one other thing to note if you didn't already know was that the Switch has digital triggers like the Wii U. No analog triggers. That is definitely disappointing.
Bomberman / Pro Controller After we were done at the MK8 booth, we went right up to the Bomberman R area as some people were leaving and it was open. I have never played a Bomberman game, but jincman had, so he and the Nintendo rep were explaining the game to me. We played in co op mode and in this setup, we had pro controllers, sitting on a couch playing the game on a TV. The pro controller I must confess is nice. This is the controller you are going to want to use when playing the Switch on the TV. It has a nice weight to it, feels comfortable to hold, and everything is laid out well. The controller even has a translucent appearance to it, which was ok. Of course, I had to speak up to the nintendo rep at that point to let him know that the controller was over priced. I mean, it's a solid controller but it's honestly no better than a PS4 or XB1 controller, both of which sell for $50. The Nintendo rep said he would pass along my comments, but did point out that the Nintendo controller does have the IR camera and NFC reader/writer inside it, so that may be why it's priced higher.
Bomberman itself was a fun game. Graphics were nothing special, but it controlled well and was a fun time playing. The nintendo rep said it would be online as well, so that seems like it could be a fun launch game. I wouldn't pay full price for this game, but if it were say $20 I would bite.
Zelda After Bomberman we moved onto the Zelda station. This one had the 30 minute wait, but it was well worth it. When I finally got to play, the Nintendo rep there basically starts up the game, hands me the grip controller with the joy cons attached to it, and a pair of headphones telling me to have fun and go wherever I want. The demo starts out with Link waking up inside some temple and he's half naked, so it walks you through the controls to help you equip clothes and such as you find them inside the temple. AND, there is actual voice work in this game and it is good. There's still a lot of reading in the game, but at least the voice of Zelda (I think that's who it is) was excellent. Once you get outside the temple, you can pretty much go anywhere you want. The game of course encourages you to go to a certain destination, but I went off on my own and stumbled upon various locations I wanted to explore. This game gives me a Skyrim vibe (even though I never played Skyrim). It wants you to explore and gives you a ton of things you can pick up and add to your inventory along the way. I've always been intimidated by the likes of Skyrim, so I can't say whether this much depth is what I was looking for in a Zelda game, but I plan to give it a shot nonetheless. I asked if you can fill up your inventory like you can in Skyrim, but the rep didn't know.
When I was playing Zelda, I was literally standing 2 feet from the TV. They had several TVs demoing this game, so they tried to cram as many people into that space as possible. Anyway, when the Switch was docked and I'm seeing it on the TV, it looked good, but you could see jaggies and such. It didn't look bad. In fact, I love the graphical style that N chose with it. But it's not a game that's on par with an Uncharted 4 on PS4 or anything. That may be because it wasn't built from the ground up for Switch or it might just be because the Switch isn't as powerful as a PS4, so keep your expectations in check. Now, during my play through the rep interrupted to pull the Switch out of the dock, asked me to detach the joy cons from the grip controller and attach them to the tablet and play on that. The game looked gorgeous on the tablet. It ran every bit as well on the tablet as it did on the TV. I didn't notice any frame rate dips, but I also didn't make it too far in the game since I went off exploring. I've read other impressions that talked about some frame rate stutters.
Grip / Pro Controller Here's my big takeaway with playing Zelda and using the grip controller. You won't want to use the grip controller. I initially had plans to only buy the Switch and Zelda and that's it. But having hands on time with the grip controller, it's not how I want to play Zelda. The grip is fine and the joy cons attach very easily. But the joy cons are small. That means the analog sticks and face buttons are also small. Not only that, but the analog sticks don't have a lot of range on them in terms of distance you can push them. Now, when the joy cons are attached to the Switch tablet itself, the smallness of them didn't bother me. Maybe it's because I'm used to playing on portables and am fine with controls being smaller in that mode. But when you attach those joy cons to a grip controller and have what feels like a traditional controller in your hands with small analog sticks and face buttons, it just didn't feel like an ideal way to play Zelda. You will absolutely want to use a Pro controller with this game. You've heard me complain about the price of the pro controller on here several times, but after having tested it along with the joy cons, I am convinced that I will be getting a pro controller with this thing. The grip is fine in a pinch, but that is never how I will want to game on this thing. Pro controller is it.
Food for thought: So, if you plan on getting the Switch to play some Zelda, you better factor in a pro controller (first or third party) because I'm telling you now that the grip just won't cut it.
Well, that takes me to the half way point. Sorry for rambling on but I wanted to share all the details. I will write up a part 2 tomorrow.
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Post by dschroll on Jan 15, 2017 0:44:43 GMT -5
During yesterday’s Treehouse Live stream, Nintendo said that Switch will support microSDXC cards that hold up to 256 GB of data. That actually was incorrect. Nintendo now notes in an official statement that “Switch is compatible with the SDXC standard, which supports up to 2TB.”
2TB cards are not actually out on the market. However, Switch will support them when they are.
It’s worth noting that even 1TB SDXC cards are still awhile for most consumers, as they were just announced last September. 512GB is currently the largest available SDXC card.
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Post by UsualNoise on Jan 15, 2017 1:26:11 GMT -5
Thanks so much for your feedback so far, awesome to hear hands on experiences from a trusted source. I too figured the individual detached Joy-Con would be too small for any lengthy sessions, but it's good to hear that confirmed. Thanks also for the feedback on the grip, although that's kind of disappointing. Hopefully N figures out prices are ridiculous for accessories sooner rather than later. Yeah, they have a lot of tech in there but if you just want a comfortable Zelda controller you really don't want to pay $70 bucks for it. I'm still excited about the Switch, Zelda, and Mario, but haven't heard anything in the last few days to reconsider my decision to wait to buy a Switch until the end of the year. I bought the Wii U within the first week of release but it's not looking like a repeat performance this time around. Looking forward to the rest - thanks again!
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Post by reaper on Jan 15, 2017 7:45:35 GMT -5
So my understanding of what you said about the controllers versus the Wii controllers is that they are basically the same as the Wii controllers with Wii Motion Plus added. Is that correct? Not like the PS Move controllers that are tracked in space with a camera system or anything like that?
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Post by dschroll on Jan 15, 2017 15:48:33 GMT -5
Load time comparison of Zelda on Wii U and Switch
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Post by dschroll on Jan 15, 2017 15:50:31 GMT -5
So my understanding of what you said about the controllers versus the Wii controllers is that they are basically the same as the Wii controllers with Wii Motion Plus added. Is that correct? Not like the PS Move controllers that are tracked in space with a camera system or anything like that? There's no sensor bar or anything like that. There is an IR camera on the right joy con, but it's not used for tracking the controller in 3d space. I think it's used for various games that use gestures and whatnot.
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Post by dschroll on Jan 15, 2017 20:19:53 GMT -5
Ok, Part 2 of my Switch event outing. Sonic ManiaAfter playing Zelda, we headed into another room with a ton of other games. The next one we went to try was Sonic Mania. There were 4 TVs set up with a little couch in front and a Switch Unit connected to each TV. In this case, there was a Sega employee there that helped us and she had us detach the controllers from the tablet and play 2 player on the TV. The first level we played was literally a remaster of the first Sonic level from Sonic 1 on the Genesis. Except you could do 2 player with Tails. We each played using a joy con held sideways. jincman was Sonic and I was Tails. While playing this game, I had quickly come to the realization that this is a terrible 2 player game. Don't get me wrong. It felt like classic Sonic and I love me some Sonic. But as Tails, I got so frustrated. First, when you're both running quickly, it is more than likely that someone will get stopped abruptly. Many times it was Jincman. So Tails would zoom off the screen as the camera stayed focused on Sonic. Of course, eventually the computer brings Tails back to where Sonic is at 10 seconds later, but this is a Sonic game. You don't want to constantly start and stop and wait 10 seconds for your character to reappear. Very frustrating. Eventually, we snapped the joy cons back into the Switch tablet and I started playing by myself on the unit. MUCH better. No having to worry about where the heck my character went. I had a nice chat with the Sega employee. We talked about my love of Sega systems like the Genesis and Dreamcast, and I tried to find out more about Sonic Mania, specifically if was going to be a physical release or a digital one. She said they cannot say yet as there are some announcements they are still waiting to make. Ultimately, I enjoyed Sonic Mania a lot. I currently have it pre ordered for the PS4, but I think I would prefer getting it on the Switch. So, once these "announcements" get made about the game, I may cancel my pre order and order the Switch version instead. Final thoughts on Sonic Mania, this is old school Sonic (graphics and all). If you were raised on a Genesis like me, then this seems like a solid bet. If you're not into retro gaming, then there's nothing here that's going to change your mind on it. Splatoon 2After getting up from Sonic, we went over to an area that had a long table that you stood at with 8 Switch units there in portable mode (tablet with joy cons attached) and each had Splatoon running on it. They were doing 4 on 4 matches. The game looks near identical to Splatoon on Wii U. Maybe it runs better, it's hard to say, because I only played it on the tablet. But, I think it looks pretty much the same. Of course you have new characters, new weapons, and new maps. Some of the new weapons are great, especially the special weapon you get when you fill up your meter. Those are a lot of fun. If you've played and enjoyed Splatoon 1 then you will like Splatoon 2. Don't expect anything revolutionary but it's still good fun. Here's the thing though, I only played Splatoon 2 in portable mode. I must confess that while it was fun playing the game, using the joy con controllers attached to the unit is not ideal. If you're familiar with the Wii U controller, it has 2 analog sticks that are symmetrical. The game has you using both analog sticks and the ZL/ZR trigger buttons. Playing on the Wii U is easy because the analog sticks are located at the top of the controller near the ZL and ZR triggers. But on the Switch, the analog sticks are offset with the right stick sitting lower than the left stick. This means when playing Splatoon 2, your thumb is on the lower right of the controller to use the analog stick, while the rest of your hand is stretching to pull the ZR trigger. This was a pain. Now I've heard from other gaming sites that played Splatoon that the Pro Controller works amazingly well, so that's the preferred way to play. I never played Splatoon 2 with the pro controller, so I can't attest to it. Still, I will absolutely be picking up Splatoon 2. My daughter and I loved Splatoon 1 and we are excited to play some more discovering new weapons and such. FAST RMXAfter Splatoon we headed over to check out FAST RMX. For those that aren't familiar with this game, this is a download only title that is similar to the likes of F-Zero. Since Nintendo doesn't seem interested in making F-Zero games, this indie developer made their own version of a futuristic racer that has received a lot of acclaim so Nintendo is giving it a lot of attention. Now, Jincman has played all the various FAST games on Wii and Wii U. I never did, but was familiar with them. The main reason I never got Fast Racing Neo on the Wii U is because I've read it's tough as nails and that most people will never see the final cup because you have to race perfectly and not make one mistake or you'll lose. I don't mind challenging, but frustratingly difficult is not for me. The game was running on a TV and you played 2 player with 2 Pro Controllers. The guy working the booth didn't have the usual Nintendo Switch shirt on and instead had a FAST shirt on. He spoke with an accent and I knew the developer of the game was German. So I asked him if he was one of the developers. He said yes he was. Then he and I chatted while jincman whooped me each and every race. Still, it was great talking to him. I mentioned that one of the reasons I held off on the Wii U game was because of the difficulty. He completely understood and said he found that only 10% of people who purchased that game ever made it to the last cup. He said they as a company struggle with the difficulty at times because some fans want it to be crazy difficult while others want it to be easier. I told him he should just put an easy, normal, and hard mode in where it changes difficulty but that content isn't locked behind finishing the game on hard. He did say that the Switch version has some changes they made so that it's a bit easier earlier in the game but that it will still ramp up to the insane difficulty for the last race. So, I guess that's better. The game looked gorgeous and ran at 1080p and I believe it's 60fps. There wasn't a hiccup at all in the game. I asked if it will be a launch game and he didn't know. He said Nintendo is going through the testing of it now and if it passes then it will be a launch game. If not, it will come out later. In terms of price, he said it should be no more than $20, but maybe they will sell it for $15. Haven't decided yet. I also asked why Nintendo just doesn't give them the F-Zero license and let them make the next F-Zero game. He said that NOA doesn't have a problem with it, but NOJ does. Anyway, I was very impressed with the game. I suspect I will be picking this one up if it makes it to launch. The developer couldn't have been nicer and the game was a lot of fun to play. Arms:The last game we played was Arms. This game was one of the more popular games and had a small wait of roughly 5 mins. During this game, you stood up and they gave each player 2 joycons. One for each hand. They made you put the wrist straps on before letting you play. This game is very much Wii boxing but with more precision. You punch your hands outward to punch the other player. Punch both hands out and you will grab the other player. You move in the game by tilting both controllers left or right at the same time. You guide your punches by tilting the respective controller. Jincman and I played twice and both times I just did not get a hang of the controls. I kept wanting to do some dash move that never seemed to work for me. From what I've read, there is a bit of a learning curve with this game but once you get the hang of it, it's a lot of fun. The graphics were good (had an Overwatch style). The controls didn't fee all that precise to me, but again, I struggled with the controls early on. I've read others really enjoyed the game a lot once you got the hang of it. People are likening it to Splatoon saying it's doing for fighting games what Splatoon did for shooting games. I'm not sure I fully believe that, but this game is fun and different, so I can see it finding an audience. i don't know if I think this is worth full price, but if it were a discounted game I might be interested. Wrap Up:After ARMS, Jincman and I were hoping to get one more Mario Kart session in, but sadly the announcer came on to say that the time was up and everyone had to start wrapping it up. Oh well. On our way out, we were given a Shortbread cookie with the Nintendo Switch logo printed on it, along with a Nintendo Switch pin. So, my final thoughts. The Switch is pretty solid overall. It's not overly bulky or heavy, the screen resolution is good. The joy con attachments worked well and are pretty versatile making it so that you can do some quick and dirty 2 player matches using the pair of them. I also want to point out that the joy con analog sticks are MUCH better than the slide pad on a 3DS. So, know that you're getting a much better quality stick than the 3DS offers. But, they're just not quite as good as a traditional controller. The grip controller is also nice and comfortable for the most part. Yes, because it uses the joy cons you do end up having smaller analog sticks and face buttons, but it works well enough. I do think that anyone here that gets the Switch will want a Pro controller. Even a 3rd party one would be ok, but keep in mind that Nintendo's Pro Controller will have the IR camera, the NFC reader/writer, and HD rumble all built in. I hate the idea of paying $70 for a controller, but at the end of the day it's a one time purchase so I may just bite the bullet and snag one. The graphics on the Switch aren't going to match the PS4 or XB1, that much is clear. They're still really good, but, so far it seems to be more Wii U++. The main appeal of the Switch is that you can play this thing at home or on the go. For me, this is very appealing as I do travel a bit for my job, so being able to take my "console" with me and play it on the go is very attractive. Not to mention, we have one TV in my entire home. That means we all contend for it from time to time. Many times I'll be sitting down on the sofa wishing I could play a game but my daughter is currently in the middle of watching a movie. The Wii U offers me some chances to get some console gaming in during such times, but not all Wii U games support off TV play, and the Wii U still limits where you can go. If I take the Wii U gamepad in the next room, it loses the signal. So, for me, the Switch finally gives me the full console experience for off TV play and wherever I want. Couple that with great nintendo exclusives and this is an easy purchase for me. Now will the Switch have mainstream appeal? That's a discussion for another day Sorry again for the long winded write up. By all means please ask me any questions anyone has as I am happy to answer. Cheers.
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Post by dschroll on Jan 15, 2017 20:23:14 GMT -5
Oh, one more thing. Nintendo employees really tried to promote strongly how the joy cons make a "satisfying click" when you connected them to the tablet. It is true they make a nice click noise to help give you that audible queue that they are attached. But every booth we went to, the Nintendo person there wanted to make sure you heard the click and convince you of how great that was
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Post by UsualNoise on Jan 16, 2017 14:12:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the additional reviews. Since I never played Splatoon that probably contributes to my lack of enthusiasm for the pre-Mario game lineup on the Switch. I actually DO have it, just haven't played it (backlog and all). Fast Racing NEO is another one I own but haven't started. I'd probably be more likely to get that sequel (especially since it's cheaper). Your mention of the lower stick on the right Joy-Con was one of my concerns, actually. It messes with the feel on games designed to use both. Obviously most don't actually use both, but those that do will suffer. Re: the 'click' sound, my brother and I started mocking the Switch presentation already by shooting our hand up and snapping at random times. I mean, come on, that was hideous. For now the Wii U handles mine and my daughter's gaming needs quite well. The way our house is setup the downstairs Wii U playing area is directly below the upstairs one. Fortunately, my daughter can maintain a connection taking the gamepad upstairs and playing there (which she does all the time) and leaving the console downstairs. Buying a Switch would be quite a costly proposition at this point since we'd need a 2nd dock and I can't imagine living without a pro controller - although I definitely would try to get by with just the grip initially. I just don't understand why Nintendo didn't make a huge splash by introducing a cost-effective system and all the big titles in the launch window. If that required delaying the release, so be it. I bet they could have eliminated the roided-up motion control for the Wii remote plus version and probably reduced the cost quite a bit. Imagine a new system at $200 with Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and Metroid. Who WOULDN'T buy that?? Finally, my brother was really disappointed that they abandoned the motion controls completely for Zelda. He loved them on Skyward Sword (I did too, but don't care as much as he does) and with all the cool gyros in the Joy-Cons neither of us understand why it couldn't at least be an alternative control option. I will say the motion controlling on Skyward Sword was very accurate with Wii Motion Plus once you got used to it. Thanks again!
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Post by reaper on Jan 16, 2017 15:46:38 GMT -5
Imagine a new system at $200 with Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and Metroid. Who WOULDN'T buy that?? I'm in for that. I guess I just need to wait 1-2 years until that exists... buy a refurb unit when the good games come out... if I'm not too busy with my Xbox Scorpio and VR by then.
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Post by dschroll on Jan 16, 2017 17:10:17 GMT -5
See, I don't have much issue with the Switch's pricing. I think for $299, you're getting a pretty solid piece of tech. I think if Nintendo tried to offer you a $199 solution, you're getting something that is as powerful or less so than the Wii U, and then Nintendo may get backlash for not offering something more advanced.
So, I think $299 is a fair price. But Nintendo's pricing on their accessories is insane and they really need to take a long hard look at that. I know those joy cons and such have a lot of tech in them, but if they want anyone than the hardcore playing this thing, then they need to price it more fairly.
If i were running Nintendo (still don't know why I'm not), I would be pricing things as follows: Pro Controller: $50 One joy con controller: $30 Pair of joy con controllers: $50 Switch Dock: $50
Also, motion controls aren't really abandoned with the Switch. They are very much present in games like 1-2 Switch and Arms. But i don't think they will be forced on you like what the Wii did. In that setting, you had to use motion controls more often than not, but the Switch has it where they are there for devs that want to use them but more traditional controls are there as well.
Even today, I had a situation where I wanted to play a game and my daughter wanted to watch her show since she was off of school. Having a Switch would've made it easy for me to continue my game but I just turned off the game and let her watch her show. I definitely welcome the added flexibility the Switch will give me and I'm looking forward to playing it. But I don't blame anyone for holding out on it because Zelda is coming to Wii U and other than that, it doesn't feel like anything noteworthy is coming to Switch until Splatoon 2.
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Post by UsualNoise on Jan 16, 2017 17:43:41 GMT -5
Also, motion controls aren't really abandoned with the Switch. They are very much present in games like 1-2 Switch and Arms. But i don't think they will be forced on you like what the Wii did. In that setting, you had to use motion controls more often than not, but the Switch has it where they are there for devs that want to use them but more traditional controls are there as well. Our complaint was only regarding Zelda. Neither of us understood with all the next-gen motion controls apparently baked into the Switch that we couldn't have them as at least an option in Zelda. Personally, I'd rather have a complete break with the motion controls system at this point and focus on Nintendo's core game series with a traditional controller only. It would certainly cost less. I guess that's my primary complaint with pricing - not that it's not a fair price, but it seems (to me) like a lot of the REASON for the price is the motion control gyros, HD rumble, etc. It's like Nintendo is forcing their idea of gaming onto consumers before there is even a demand for it and expecting consumers to foot the bill just to try it. It worked great with the Wii, but it was way easier to demo it and see the value. The Switch's motion control seems like a harder thing to grasp without actually using it, and that's why I'm pessimistic about mainstream appeal for this system (at least at the current price point).
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Post by dschroll on Jan 16, 2017 18:43:36 GMT -5
Also, motion controls aren't really abandoned with the Switch. They are very much present in games like 1-2 Switch and Arms. But i don't think they will be forced on you like what the Wii did. In that setting, you had to use motion controls more often than not, but the Switch has it where they are there for devs that want to use them but more traditional controls are there as well. Our complaint was only regarding Zelda. Neither of us understood with all the next-gen motion controls apparently baked into the Switch that we couldn't have them as at least an option in Zelda. Personally, I'd rather have a complete break with the motion controls system at this point and focus on Nintendo's core game series with a traditional controller only. It would certainly cost less. I guess that's my primary complaint with pricing - not that it's not a fair price, but it seems (to me) like a lot of the REASON for the price is the motion control gyros, HD rumble, etc. It's like Nintendo is forcing their idea of gaming onto consumers before there is even a demand for it and expecting consumers to foot the bill just to try it. It worked great with the Wii, but it was way easier to demo it and see the value. The Switch's motion control seems like a harder thing to grasp without actually using it, and that's why I'm pessimistic about mainstream appeal for this system (at least at the current price point). Oh, I completely agree that Motion Controls at this point should be abandoned. Nintendo thinks though that it's still a differentiator for them and it will appeal to the masses. I'm sorry, but it really won't (especially when one joy con costs $50). Here's a blurb from a recent interview Reggie did with Time on the Switch: Notice the bolded comment: But what we will do, is we will recognize what consumers like about our competitors, we will look to do it in a way that has a Nintendo flair to it. This basically translates to, "We will take what you like about our competitors and offer you something that is more convoluted, less user friendly and charge you more for it." That's Nintendo's biggest problem. They want to be different in every way possible, when they don't need to be. Their IP already makes them different, but that's not enough for them. They want to do online different, they want to do controllers different, they want to do friends different, etc. These are things no one has asking to be different at this point in time. I appreciate that Nintendo took a chance with the Wii, and while it was a huge success, it was ultimately a fad with the mainstream consumer. IMO, these are the customers you don't want as they are not loyal, they are not reliable or predictable. Nintendo has a great core audience that sadly continues to shrink. Nintendo needs to focus on that audience and give build from there. These are the people that will continue to give you their money, but you have to show them some love and put out the content that they're asking for, not a mini game milking a cow using a $50 joy con. Oh, and going back to talking about Zelda, since it was designed for the Wii U, I don't think motion controls were designed in with it. I think Nintendo decided within the last 6 months to put it on Switch and because of the short notice they probably decided to not bother having special joy con functionality. Not to mention Skyward Sword was criticized a lot about the motion controls.
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Post by dschroll on Jan 16, 2017 19:16:01 GMT -5
Ok, this is too funny that I had to share it. There is swearing in it, so no watching in front of the kids. But this guy pretty much nails it in terms of how Nintendo has Nintendo'd the Switch.
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