Job opportunity in Japan

[NoThru22]

Good luck! My wife will be laying over in Japan while you're there. Say hi (because it's so small)!

[fatty]

Good luck, man! Don't forget about us when you somehow become Nintendo's new ambassador in Japan, and later come back and take Reggie's job.

[dschroll]

Ok, so I wanted to update everyone on the latest with this saga. I apologize in advance as this will likely be a long post. Anyway, my wife and I took our trip out to Japan starting out in Okayama. This is the city we would live for the majority of our time in Japan. We left the early morning of 2/8 and after 20+ hours of travel time, we finally arrived in the evening of 2/9. We immediately crashed upon arriving at the hotel because we were exhausted.

The next day we met up with people at the office I would be working at and I got the official invitation from the president to be part of their team. My wife and I met up with an HR person there to go over some items. The company will offer me a company car, a mobile phone, and will cover our daughter's education costs. The one problem is that there is no international schools in Okayama. So, its Japanese schools only for her and unfortunately most schools don't have English speaking staff and don't teach English, so we have concerns about how well our daughter will do in such an environment. We did discover a private school that has 30% of the curriculum taught in English and the rest in Japanese. This seems like the best option for our daughter save for that this school requires kids take an entrance exam, which of course, is in Japanese. So, we're not holding a lot of hope that she would be accepted into this school.

The next red flag that popped up for us during that discussion was that the company confirmed that I would be living apart from my family for the first 6 months of this assignment. I had hoped my family could come with me in this other city during this time, but they said that it wasn't possible. I would be staying in company housing and it wasn't big enough for a family and was just meant for a single person. The good news is that I'm only in this city 4 days a week and then back home with my family 3 days a week. So its not as though I'm completely removed from my family the entire 6 months. Its like I'll be taking weekly business trips for 6 months. Still, its not ideal to be removed from my family so early into this assignment. That's when they'll need me the most.

This, of course, brings up another red flag. If I'm in this other city, my wife is responsible for taking our daughter to school and basically playing single mom for 6 months. That means she'll need to drive the car when taking our daughter to school. This prospect terrifies my wife. She hates driving in the US, let alone in a foreign country where they drive on the left side of the road on the right side of the car. Again, me not being there makes her uncomfortable with things.

After all the meetings, we went out to dinner with everyone and had a nice time. Everyone was so friendly and welcoming.

The next day, which was a holiday in japan, the guy who would be my manager spent the entire day with my wife and I. He picked us up in the morning and took us to visit an English kindergarten. My daughter would only go to this school for 6 months before it was time to go to a japamese primary school. Its the only English school they have there and it only teaches English, no Japanese. So, it doesn't offer our daughter much assistance in learning Japanese, so we weren't sure if we'll go with that option. Still, It was great to speak with the principal there and it was through him that we learned about that private school.

After looking at the school, we went over to a grocery store to get a feel for what things were available food wise and get an idea of costs. All in all, things weren't bad, but definitely we would be missing some of our staples from home, namely cereal of which they barely had any. From there my would-be manager took us to his house where I got to meet his family and even played some Super Smash Brothers with his children. Suffice it to say, I got my ass handed to me by these kids as I haven't played Smash in a LONG time and could barely remember which buttons did what. Still, it was a blast playing with them. The daughter so wanted a Wii U and I kept trying to convince her dad that he should get one for her

After that, we went out looking at houses that would be available to us. All of them were just ok at first. About the same size as our condo, so space wise we weren't disappointed or anything. The one thing we quickly discovered was Japanese homes are ICE cold. There is NO heating in these places at all. No central heating / cooling system whatsoever. Every place we saw had a unit A/C and no heaters. Another thing that quickly jumped out at my wife was that none of the houses have ovens. Not a single one. Just stovetops. After further investigation, smaller scale ovens for a countertop are available but are spendy ($500-$1k).

The last place we looked at was still being built, but we got to see what a comparable unit looked like. It was the one we liked the best as it had a more western style layout. It was also the most expensive.

After that, we got on a train and went to Kyoto as I had a meeting the next day with HR in Kyoto, which is where my company HQ is at. My would-be manager showed up at the meeting with HR the next day. I was a little concerned about that because I knew we would be discussing compensation. Sure enough, the breakout of my compensation was shown to both of us. He commented to me that I make more money than he does. I got the sense that he was a little upset by this, but I wasn't sure. This was exactly why I was concerned about him being there. Anyway, we went through everything in about a couple of hours. Overall, the compensation was fairly generous. Still, less than what my wife and I make now combined, but more than what I make individually.

After that my wife and I had the next 1.5 days in Kyoto to do whatever we wanted. I said goodbye to the manager as he was off to Tokyo and he said he hopes I will come to Japan. Overall, I was very impressed with everything, but still wanted to go through the financial math to see how things really broke out and if we were going to have any shortfalls on anything.

When we got back home I sat down and crunched various numbers in paycheck simulators to see how much money we would have to work with. Essentially, I'm getting 2 salaries...one in the US and one in Japan. The US one is the one I was most concerned about as we have a number of obligations here in the US that we will need to maintain. The japan salary looked good, but I had no strong ideas in terms of what household spending looked like in Japan. When translated to USD, it seemed promising, but I just wasn't sure and figured we wouldn't know until moving in Japan. After doing some math, I found that the US salary wouldn't be enough to cover our costs. It was better than I expected, but we were going to fall a few hundred short each month.

The monday I go back to my office in Chicago, I was supposed to have a meeting with the general manager about my trip and I'm sure he'd want to know what my decision was or when I would make it. That meeting ended up getting postponed due to weather, so I sent an email since I was being asked by Japan to make a decision by the end of this week. So, I sent an email explaining to the GM that the meetings went well, there were some red flags that came up, but nothing was insurmountable. The role I would be going into is considered a promotion title and pay wise. However, my home office had no plans of promoting me until after the assignment. So, I told the GM that all I need is for him to promote me so that I'd have the same title in both home and host office and would get the slight bump in pay. Increase wise we are talking about a 10% increase. I said if he could do that, we are in.

The next day I finally had the meeting in our office and I did my download of how the trip went (much like I am doing now). After that the GM starts discussing my email. Ultimately he says he is not promoting me and not bumping my pay. He claims his hands are tied and there on policies in place and give him no wiggle room on this stuff. From his perspective, because I am leaving and he still has to pay a salary for me in the US, and replace my current role in the company, so he doesn't want to offer me an increase. I could see his point if it wasn't for the fact that the whole point of me going to japan is to come back to the chicago office and help grow business. Seems like very short sighted thinking.

Anyway, I went back and forth with the GM trying to explain things from my perspective. That the extra bump in pay will make a world of difference, will bump my pay enough to ensure our US costs are covered, etc. He didn't budge at all. Kept saying that his hands were tied. Didn't even try and offer alternative suggestions. I went on to talk about how the last guy that did this type of assignment ultimately quit within a few months of coming back to Chicago because of empty promises that were made and inflexibility. That I had concerns that if they can't work with me on the front end of this, I see me having the same issues on the back end, and I don't want this to play out the same way. Its not fair to these people in Japan that will spend so much time with me to train me. Anyway, he stood his ground and said there was nothing he could do. Here's the kicker though. He said if I choose not to go, they plan to promote me in Chicago...to the same title (only for MEMS products instead of switches) that I would have had in Japan.

So, let me summarize. Stay in Chicago to work an easier job....get promoted. Go to Japan for a harder assignment, no promotion. Does this seem backwards to anyone?

After the meeting I was pretty frustrated. I didn't know what to think. I was nervous that this wasn't going to work out and I scrambled to think of what else I could do to make this work. So, I thought of another idea. Since clearly the GM hates talking about salary increases where he claims he has little control, perhaps I could ask if the US office would be willing to pay the travel expenses for my family and I to come home once a year. Japan will already do this for us once per year as part of the package, but we would most likely be coming back twice per year. So, if the US office could cover that expense, then that would be enough to get me on board. I sent another email to the GM proposing this idea and inviting him to make any suggestions he might have.

That night I spoke with my wife about the whole ordeal. She was extremely frustrated. She basically pointed out that this GM has no interest in working with me and will likely not budge on any of it. She feels, its time for us to pull out of this because I'm not getting any help on the front end and I will likely find myself getting frustrated on the back end. I agreed. As much as I wanted this to work out and to have this experience, I was just so frustrated that the GM wasn't even trying to help me find a middle ground with all of this.

Sure enough, this morning the GM replied to my email saying no to my request about having them pay for our travel expenses once per year. So, this afternoon I went in his office and advised him that we've decided to decline the offer. He looked surprised. Started trying to a convince me that the compensation package was good and how he talked with these other guys who claim that my package is better than average. I acknowledged that the overall package was very generous, but pointed out again that its still less than what my wife and I make combined and how I just need some more assistance on the US salary to help cover our costs. I have little knowledge of how good my japanese salary is because I'm not living in japan and just don't have any kind of reference in terms of what are monthly costs like in Japan.

ANyway, the GM asked me to put together an email stating why I was turning it down. He wants to send it to our office in Japan with the hopes that maybe they could provide me some more money or offer to pay for a second return trip. This so frustrated me because my problem wasn't at all with the Japan portion of this. The japan part is more than generous. For me, I just really wanted the US to be a bit more flexible.

So, I send out my email, very long winded like this post, and I explained that the combined concerns of all these things just ultimately make this a difficult proposition for us and we would not be accepting it. Of course, most of those items are issues I have on the US side, so not sure Japan can do anything about it. We'll see if this somehow manages to get salvaged. What concerns me is that I'm not trying to be greedy or anything. I'm ultimately just trying to make sure our US costs are covered without the need from me having to constantly monitor the situation from Japan. I don't want our office telling the japan office I want more money or I'm not taking it. I'm worried how it will make me look. Additionally, I can't imagine what my would-be boss would say given I already make more than he does. "He wants more?!? WTF?!?" I ultimately explained it that again we're going from 2 incomes to 1 ,but many of our costs aren't changing. That we'll already have enough stress in our life from making this move and I don't want to add financial stress onto it.


We'll see how this all plays out. I'm mostly frustrated with this manager more than anything. I hate how he's handling this. Japan has been great, but our Chicago office sucks.
That's where we're at right now. I've officially turned it down, but its possible it might get salvaged. There's a huge push company wide to start implementing things like this more and more, so I'm really surprised that the GM was willing to let this play out like this over such a nominal amount of money, relatively speaking.

[dschroll]

To further add to this, although this post will be much shorter, is that I can tell my wife's heart isn't in this as much. The closer it got to us making a decision on going, the more I could see that she really had no interest in going and was just going to be the supportive wife. She didn't want to be the reason we didn't go, but I got the sense she preferred to not go.

On top of that, this move would've been extremely hard on our 12 year old dog, who hates being in a car, let alone a plane and then in quarantine.

Anyway, as I said, its possible that this still may happen, but this whole process has been mentally exhausting. Its like I've been taking on a second full time job dealing with all of this on top of trying to keep up with other things. I'll keep everyone posted on what happens. As always, I appreciate everyone's support here and welcome any feedback you have. I'm sure some of you won't agree with my decision and I'm not thrilled with it myself, but at the end of the day I want to work with people who want to work with me. While the Japan part of this would have likely been a good experience, at the end of the day its only for 3 years and then I'm coming back to the home office with my wife now out of work and no confidence that my salary or career path within the organization would be better off from this assignment. No doubt my resume as a whole would be better, but as I said, the last guy left within months of returning because of his frustrations with our home office. Right now, given I've been met with some inflexibility on the front end of this, I see it playing out the exact same way on the back end. And the honorable person in me doesn't want to go into this role saying that if I'm unhappy when I come back I will just quit and go somewhere else. It won't be fair to the people in Japan who spent 3 years training me to have that happen to them yet again.

[UsualNoise]

Tough decision, I agree. But if nothing changes I do agree that staying put sounds like the overall best move given all you've written, especially if your wife would be happier staying (hard to read women sometimes!) The school situation sounds problematic too, unless you can get your daughter a crash course in Japanese.

It's too bad about the company's unwillingness to work with you on this, but it may be for the best if it prevents bigger problems down the road. Thanks for sharing your experiences, it was very interesting to read about your trip.

[reaper]

Thanks for the huge write up. I have to admit that I am a bit confused and would like to just play devil's advocate for a while if I may. If I am your employer, I would feel like I am being very generous to cover your US salary and a Japan salary. I would feel pretty surprised to hear that you also wanted me to compensate you for your WIFE's salary. What responsibility does your company have for your wife's salary? I see your side of it. You're used to that income and don't want to lose it. But on the other hand, it seems a little crazy to assume that your company should cover her salary. Am I missing something here?

Another though it... can't you reduce your US costs while in Japan? What are these costs? You keeping your Condo? What if you put your stuff in storage and rented it out in the meantime? Wouldn't that net you a positive? Other ideas to reduce the US cost?

However, in reality... I don't think you really want to go yourself. I think you like the idea of going. I think you want to take the advice of others who are telling you to go. But I think, deep down, you would actually prefer to stick to the life you know here. This is just what I am picking up over typed text and "knowing" you through a forum for years. But I just think this is not your bag. What do you think about that? Do you think you honestly REALLY want to do this, assuming all these nagging details weren't there?

[dschroll]

Just to clarify, I wasn't asking the company to offset my wife's salary. I apologize if that's how my write up sounded. I just wanted them to know that the compensation they were offering me, while very good, still wasn't what our combined income was, but I did not expect them to match that number. However, I was hoping they could raise the income I did have by another 10%. That would've closed the deal and I felt like it wasn't asking for much.

In terms of our costs here, yes, we plan to maintain our place in the US and yes we do plan to rent it out if possible. However, I don't want to rely on rental income to cover our expenses here (mortgage, association fee, property tax, school loans, life insurance policies, 401k, health insurance, etc.). They're not paying my full salary in the US nor in Japan. They're paying me lower amounts than that in each location. However, combined, those amounts add up to more than I make now.

I definitely want to take this opportunity. The more I think about it, the more I want it to happen. Its something that I think could really solidify my career in the coming years and I think it would just be a great experience overall. But I am friends with a guy who went through this same thing in our office. He had a great time out in Japan and loved it all, But was miserable when he returned back to our office. Eventually he just got fed up and quit, so the company lost all their investment they put into him being there.

Knowing that, I'm trying to prevent it from happening again. I've told the GM here several times I really want to make this work and keep proposing suggestions on areas that would make all the difference. In every instance he says no. He doesn't even pretend to entertain them or offer counter proposals. He just says no and says he can't do anything. This is the guy who essentially doubled my work load last year and told me he wasn't going to give me a promotion as it wasn't considered a full time job, even though the person that had been previously doing this work had gotten a promotion to do it. So, now he says he will finally promote me this year if I stay. But if I go, he says he won't promote me until after I come back in 3 years. This just feels so counter intuitive to me. Wouldn't taking on the harder assignment also warrant the promotion?

Anyway, I just see my eventual return being met with the same frustrations and disappointment the other guy had and me ultimately quitting over it. So, I've somewhat justified it to myself that's its reason enough to decline the offer.

In the end I really do want to go as I think it would be great. But, it would be extremely hard and challenging on my family, especially for the first part when I would be living away from them. If my wife were more enthusiastic about it then maybe things would be different, but when she falls square into the middle on this one, it feels harder to pull the trigger.

[oldskoolboarder]

I don't envy your position, it's def a tough decision. I actually kind of agree w/ reaper's first paragraph. From a company standpoint, really all they should be concerned w/ is your compensation, not a family compensation. Moving expenses and education are actually added bonuses.

You should make sure your wife's still keen on it. In the end, blissful marriage/family matters the most. Life regrets can seem big now but later on, maybe not so much. But that's the stickler. Would you really feel bad walking away from this? Bad enough that you couldn't forget it? Only you know.

Here's my read from my big picture head.
- You've got some heavy details that aren't the best (school, driving, US office/boss not seeming accommodating, smaller housing, heating).
- Your wife's concern would be the biggest. If she can't go all in, then that should drive your decision. But then when you make the call, don't look back. It wouldn't be fair to anyone, mostly to the both of you.
- On the surface, your Japan office looks like they're making every effort to make your deal attractive. Yeah, you're making more in the US that someone in Japan w/ the same job, but the same would happen when you compare an engineer from the mid-West, East Coast vs an engineer in Silicon Valley.
- When dealing w/ such financially sensitive and crucial information, I would do as much face to face and on the phone as possible, with HR in hearing distance. Emails can get misconstrued VERY easily and people will read into it however they need to. If your boss/GM has issues (I can't speak to how much trust you have), he could easily cut/paste and you won't know. Make sure to keep all copies of every interaction.
- Following reaper's train of thought, I think you need to isolate your financial concerns. This part is important, IMHO, when making an objective decision. You have to separate those financial amounts (2nd flight home, making up for your wife's compensation/loss of salary, etc) from those that a company is really obligated to make. I've never had to go through this but know a few who have and there are things a company provides to pad compensation 'in an expected way'. These might be moving expenses, education coverage for your kids, time off for US holidays, extra compensation to cover US taxes AND taxes in your new country. Covering your return flight home (even once), accommodating your wife's salary, etc shouldn't be expected by an employee, so I wouldn't fault the company (US or Japan side) for that. It doesn't hurt to ask, but I honestly think that's asking a bit much. If this delta in compensation is such a big concern and non-negotiable for whatever valid concerns you have, then I'd say your decision is done and you stay. BUT, as an outsider, I say that's a concern that really isn't the company's financial responsibility. People take pay cuts all the time in the interest of pursuing what they really want. That's the bigger question you've got to answer. And it's VERY understandable if sometimes financial issues end up making the final decision.
- Your GM offered you to stay and promote you. I'd be wary of being the pawn between the US and Japan offices. Yes, a little paranoia but I've experienced my share of awful office/company politics to know that it happens. Your GM has shown his cards and you know how much he'll go to bat for you. You mentioned inflexible. Is this the guy you trust w/ your career? You need to ask yourself that. What's your guarantee that he's even there when you come back? Will he be 'flexible' when you return?
- If you stay, then realize you've kind of alienated the Japanese office. They may feel slighted. But, how bad that is for you at your company, I can't say.
- You have a concern when you come back in 3 years. 3 years is a lifetime. Heck, you may not want to even go back into the industry or the company. (Hence, your GM's concern is valid, since a precedent has been set). Who knows if you or your wife find a new passion in the next 3 years and that becomes something viable? To me, those kinds of things are SO exciting, albeit risky. Going to Japan gets you experience (work AND life) that many people can't get. I ENVY those folks. Today, w/ my kids 8 & 11, wife working her own psych practice, if someone offered me or the wife a similar shot, I do it in a heart beat. I wouldn't have nay issue being the homemaker... Either sell/rent my house, sell my stuff (hell I'll buy new stuff later), and welcome the new adventure. But that's me (probably not even my wife as much).

Trust me, I've been going through my mid-life crisis scenario over the last year w/ the wife, our financial planner, etc. There have been times (as late as this week) that I've been ready to walk out the door happily. We're fortunate enough that we could afford to handle it and it would surely relieve a lot of stress. I'm not really a Type-A guy, I would rather just have a fun, relaxing, enjoyable life than be those guys at Nest or What's App (granted, that wouldn't be bad either...). I left my previous job where I made a VERY good living, mostly because it was SO boring. I can't stand boring, no matter how well it pays or easy it is. Don't get me wrong, I can stand it, but not forever.

Minor thoughts that probably don't provide much weight:
1) Driving on the left isn't so bad. I've done it in the UK and w/ an automatic, it's doable fast. However, automatics are a rare breed outside the US. It's also easier to drive on the left when other cars are on the road, the perspective helps. The hard part is when you're alone because your gut reaction is to move right.
2) Your girl's education is tricky but I'd still look at it as an opportunity for all of you to learn a new language. Not many Americans get to do that.


After my long rant, my suggestion is to really decide 2 things:
1) Is the financial strain insurmountable? Don't count on the company stepping in, I really don't think it's their responsibility here.
2) Can your wife do it w/ fervor? It's probably hard to answer now, both of you sound emotionally exhausted. Take a break, take day/weekend off, and do something fun as a family and don't even THINK about this. Relax your brains. Then when you've calmed down. Revisit with intention.

If you can handle the finances on your own and your wife says go. Do it and don't look back.

[reaper]

I'll add in one more question to the mix... how do you view your career if you go to Japan, return, and leave your current company? Is it going to be better than or equal to if you stay and get promoted? If so, then you have less to be concerned about. Because, if you return and they aren't treating you well, take what they gave you and go. In the corporate world, these days, no one is dedicated to anyone else. It's purely business and if they invested in you for 3 years but didn't continue to do so afterwards and you find something better, just leave.

It sounds rough but it's reality. The only one who REALLY cares about you... is you (in the corporate world).

I say this just to potentially remove some stress about returning to a problem at your current business. That may not be an issue if you can just walk out and use your experience to launch your career to new heights elsewhere...

[dschroll]

Ok gents. This is the latest. The GM here called me to discuss some more. We went over my concerns and it seems like he's willing to play ball now. So, he claims he's going to see what he can do. This could be it. We might be going after all. Will keep everyone posted.

[fatty]

Holy Smokes! I was going to make a dumb comment about you not representing the US in Smash Brothers but I refrained (I am terrible at the game too).

But seriously, reading the rest of this...wow...thanks for sharing. I've been wondering how this has been going the last few days and now I'm really engrossed reading this and wanting to find out how things went. I accidentally glanced at the beginning of the last post "Ok gents. This is the latest." and I say "NO NO fatty, don't skip ahead!!" Anyways, all of this rambling to say thanks for the update.

Some really good points have been brought up, and ones by reaper and oldskool that I hadn't thought of. oldskool really does a good job I think of bringing out these two points:

After my long rant, my suggestion is to really decide 2 things:
1) Is the financial strain insurmountable? Don't count on the company stepping in, I really don't think it's their responsibility here.
2) Can your wife do it w/ fervor? It's probably hard to answer now, both of you sound emotionally exhausted. Take a break, take day/weekend off, and do something fun as a family and don't even THINK about this. Relax your brains. Then when you've calmed down. Revisit with intention.

Reading this from an outside perspective, I can see how you and your wife are frustrated with the GM. And I'm not referring so much about the financial side of things only, but his unwillingness to work with you. Not only with this but with promotions in the past. You want to work for someone who has your back. That being said 3 years is a long time and we don't know how things will be later, he may not even be there. You have your honorable intentions, but like reaper mentioned you've got to look out for you and your family first. If for some reason plans change when you get back and you are being called to do something else, I'd do it. Japan will know your character from working with you for three years. Hopefully things would work out great for when you do come back, but if for some reason they don't, that's just the way things are. It would then be on the Japan and US offices on figuring out what they are doing wrong in this situation. There are certain things to expect when returning, but from the way it seems that management has handled things in the past I wouldn't count on it.

Good luck, man. Definitely make sure that the wife is fully on board. I'm getting to the point in my life and career where I have more of a perspective similar to oldskool's, do things right now that you find fulfilling and rewarding. My job right now is great, but I don't know how much longer I can take being stuck behind a desk, getting fat(ter). Take life by the horns. That's not me necessarily urging you to take the opportunity (with all of the obstacles you mentioned with the first six months and school, I can't say I would), it is more just saying that if this is something that you and your family really want then go for it.

Keep us posted!!

[dschroll]

Thanks everyone for the great feedback. We've talked about all of this in the beginning where I was waffling on going or not. Then, when the opportunity was put on hold, I was sad to see that happen. Now its back on and we find some new red flags that give us concern, but when the GM kept shooting down my suggestions, I found myself really wanting to fight to keep this alive. The closer it got to me possibly losing it, the more I realized how much I'd really like to do it.

So, I am definitely wanting to do this, and my daughter seems psyched about it, but she's 5 and doesn't know any better. My wife is the wild card here. She's completely thrown her support behind me on this if I want to do it, but deep down she has no strong interest in it. She hates moving in general. She'd throw up the same hesitation about us moving down the street, let alone moving around the world. At the end of the day, she knows that we'll have each other and we'll make it work and find happiness as we are a close knit family. But, she's told me that personally, she has no interest in visiting or living in Japan. Not to mention that she'll be sad about quitting her job as its the first job she's liked in 10 years.

I think once we're there we'll figure things out and get into a routine and be happy, but I just don't know for sure. I guess the nice thing though is that if we're there and things aren't working out, we can always come back home. If I quit, the company won't pay for the return trip, but its an option nonetheless, so its not like we're stuck.

This will all be decided soon though. I need to make a decision by next week one way or another because my wife's employer needs to know and so does our daughter's school.

Also, I plan to practice up on my Smash before moving to Japan and will get a rematch with those kids.

[reaper]

WOW. Decision time. We wait with bated breath.

[dschroll]

Well everyone, I guess I blew it. After my conversation with the GM yesterday he seemed to indicate that he would see what could be done for me. I guess nothing could be done as he proceeded to email Japan that i wasn't taking it. I'm sure he gave them a filtered version of it saying that it was due to the schools there or me living apart from my family for 6 months rather than giving the real reason of me only asking for my title in the US to match my title in Japan. I'm certainly disappointed how this all played out. I was all ready to take it but asked for one small thing and it all went to hell because of it. I checked with so many people on this and everyone, including my direct manager, thought what I was asking for was fair. I wish I could point fingers but at the end of the day this one was on me and was my decision to make it a dealbreaker. I have no doubts I'll have some regrets in this all but am trying to stay positive in that it's better for my wife and our marriage by staying.

Sorry guys. I guess I'm truly an idiot and should have just taken it without question...

[oldskoolboarder]

Bummer. As I said before, at the least, you know your answer. Sounds like you had to address your concerns w/ the company up front, so not sure you could've kept it to yourself.

Take the weekend off, reset. Make note to ensure that you get your 'promised' promotion, cause if you don't, you know where you stand and it's now your responsibility to take charge either at your company now or start planning how to make it better at the next place.

It's all just data now. You have to use it wisely going forward.

[dschroll]

I have no doubts I'll get the promotion, but I don't know if I'll stay at the company or not. We'll see. I'm feeling a bit bitter about the whole thing. When I first made the request to the GM about getting the promotion so my title in the US would match that of in Japan, I thought I was doing so from a position of strength. My direct manager secretly advised me that both Japan and the US office want this move to happen and that the GM had already been telling the MEMS group in Japan (the group I currently support) that I was taking the job in Japan. So, I was encouraged by my direct manager to ask for more if I wanted and that I'd likely get it as there was a lot of incentive on both sides to make this work. I could've made some outrageous demand and said I wanted like 30% more or what have you, but I didn't. I sat down and looked things over and thought everything looked good for the most part. The only thing I wanted was the promotion beforehand rather than after, mainly because I was getting the promotion anyway if I turned Japan down. I felt like I earned the promotion and just didn't want to wait 3 more years before getting it. It wasn't a giant bump in pay (10%), but it would've still been a big help. I didn't think it was asking a lot, but apparently it was.

As I said, I can sit here and point the finger at my direct manager saying he encouraged me to push back or point the finger at the GM for not being flexible, but at the end of the day it was my choice to walk away. I'll just have to live with that and move on. This one will sting for a while though...

[dschroll]

Just another quick update. I had lunch with a couple of people from Japan on saturday who I'll be supporting with my new promotion. They were very excited about working with me and are really good people. I talked with them about the Japan opportunity and how I ultimately turned it down but felt bad about it all since I loved the idea of living in Japan for a few years to work there. Anyway, one of the people mentioned to me that its becoming a more company wide policy to start implementing this kind of move so more people can come to Japan and learn the business. He said he didn't think this would be my last chance to go to Japan and that a lot of the other offices might start implementing this and would likely allow us to live in Kyoto as these offices are easily accessible by train from Kyoto.

That certainly lessens the blow of turning this recent opportunity down thinking it was my only chance ever for this kind of experience. Obviously there's n certainty that this will ever happen again for me, but I'm going to do what I can to put the bug in people's ear that I'd be interested in this kind of opportunity at other offices. Not so much from a US side as from a Japan side. Right now I support 3 different product groups and am pretty tight with them all. I'll let them each know that if ever an opportunity were to come up to have someone relocate to Japan that I'd totally be interested.

[NoThru22]

How did your daughter feel about all this? I have not chimed in much beyond my initial thoughts because I still think it would be a really bad idea to stick her in a school that speaks mostly Japanese, even the one that is 30% in English.

[dschroll]

My daughter is 5, so she doesn't know what to make of it all. She is disappointed to a degree, but to her the whole thing sounded like a big fun adventure. She would have struggles no doubt, but she didn't know or understand that. In the end, she wasn't broken up too much by it because she's never known anything other than life where we are.

If I do stay with this company, I'll still be taking trips to Japan at least once per year. I told my daughter I would definitely bring her and my wife with on one of those trips so she could still see some of Japan. That made her excited.

[fatty]

Thanks for the updates, dschroll. One of the good things that came out of this is that your wife will still be at the job she has enjoyed the most so far at least. And if this opportunity does come up again, who knows, the logistics of everything might change to make that transition easier? Shorter duration as opposed to 3 years, whole family lives in the city you work, etc. Hope things work out for you.